Anonymous Submission #0068 – A Police Officers Response

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(OPINION) – I have been a police officer for some time now.  I usually don’t comment on things on social media, but I think the issue involving the Thunder Bay Police officer and the female youth she was dealing with deserves another perspective.

I was not present during the incident on 02 December 2018.  A female that was on an ambulance gurney was not being cooperative.  The police officer involved was calm until something happened (the video is not completely clear).  The officer tells the female she is going to the hospital.  The officer then slaps the female and puts hands on the female after telling the female “that’s enough” and “you do not spit on me” (again the video is not completely clear).

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At this point although the video is not clear to me, it’s abundantly clear that the officer believes she was spit on by the female.  It is at this point the female turned this issue into a criminal matter of assault.  The officer now has a duty and obligation to protect herself, the public, and anyone else in the area from the female assaulting them by spitting on them or from any other form of assault.

We as police officers are trained to escalate our use of force to the point that it brings the threat to an end.  In this example it would not be prudent for the officer to spit back at the female as control would not be gained.  The officer chose to slap the individual and put hands on her to gain control to stop the threat.

I am assuming that the officer did not break any bones or do any major injury to the female.  The officer did not use an extreme amount of force to control the female.  The Criminal Code of Canada allows police to use appropriate amounts of force.

It is quite clear the officer’s voice was raised.  I believe this to be because of 2 reasons; the first being that the officer was attempting to give clear instructions to the female, the second being the officer’s heart rate probably just went up as other things were beginning to happen because of the assault the officer just received. This is a natural human response that the officer had no control over.

The officer took control of the female without causing any major injury; the officer, on the other hand, had to be treated for body fluid exposure and the officer is currently on some sort of leave and now has some pretty big players making comments about her conduct.  This officer is facing scrutiny for doing her job.

NAN then releases a statement ostracizing the officer.  At no point in time does NAN condemn the actions of the female on the gurney.  NAN does not acknowledge to any extent what the female did to have the officer gain control over her; being that she just committed the crime of assault.  NAN only acknowledges what the officer did, and their opinion that it was wrong.

Here is a little basic policing; police have the right under legislation to use appropriate force in certain circumstances, plain and simple.  They are full filling their sworn duty when they do this legally. Police react because of the way a person they are dealing with is behaving; police don’t start their day asking themselves how many people they can punch out today.

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I now have concern for officers in the future as they may not want to be the subject of scrutiny, may not use enough appropriate force in a given situation, which may cause some one in the future to be injured or even worse.  The people that are weighing in have no idea what it is like to be an officer, but they can certainly cause an officer to second guess themselves at the wrong time causing someone’s family member to be a victim.

Here is some simple advice, to the people that support us, continue to do so and do it loud.  Follow the law.  When you see an officer out and about, thank them, let their management know that you are behind them, demand the management support them as well.   Ask to shake their hand; some might even give you a hug (some police officers don’t like to be touched).

To the people that don’t support us, follow the law; don’t put us in a situation where we will have to deal with you in an uncomfortable way.  You and you alone will dictate how the situation will be resolved.  If you are drunk and asked to leave, just leave.  If you are being arrested, don’t put up a physical fight, take it to court.  If an officer deals with you poorly by all means put in a complaint, take it as far as you want to take it, the complaint will be dealt with properly.

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That is my two cents, thanks for reading.

Editors note: This person claims to be a police officer, their identity cannot be identified by us as it was submitted anonymously

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60 Replies to “Anonymous Submission #0068 – A Police Officers Response”

  1. Very well written and thank you for all that you do for our city.
    Question: Could you comment on how often a police officer in any given shift has to use force. Is Thunder Bay really as bad people think it is?

    1. wow, you change ur stand on things fast, on another news post, you were all against the officer saying she used accesive force.. and i among others believe the officer was in the right!!
      just another internet hero i guess..

    2. It was a well written letter from someone well educated and very smart. Unfortunately my question wasn’t answered yet. Looking at the video the officer did two thing. Smacked the kid in the face and then covered her mouth. The officer used force but the slap I still believe was unnecessary. Covering the mouth would have been suffice. So no i still haven’t changed my mind. Thanks for commenting.

  2. I could not agree more. What our city police have to deal with daily in this city is terrible. I applaud this officer for not punching the shit out of someone who just ASSAULTED them. I would not of excercised that much professionalism or self control in that same situation. So hat’s off to our men and women who put their lives on the line everytime they don the uniform. Thank you TBPS keep up the great work 👍👍💖💖

  3. If an officer deals with you poorly by all means put in a complaint, take it as far as you want to take it, the complaint will be dealt with properly. – yea right

  4. Great article and thanks for taking the time to write this.
    I believe the majority of Thunder Bay shares the same sentiments you’re trying to convey. It’s unfortunate you have to deal with the same old (and individuals) on a daily basis with no moral/legal support from your Leader. The Police officer involved didn’t want this to happen. She was called there and the so called “victim” instigated the whole fiasco. As far as I’m concerned, not only is this female Police officer the victim, ALL Police officers are victims.
    NAN, it’s time you started calling a spade and spade and started to deal with the crises at hand. Nothing is going to be resolved and until you realise a lot of these issues are caused and instigated by your own people.
    My wife was a victim last night as a young Native broke into her car at Shoppers at 4:30 in the afternoon. I told the Police officer (4018) that arrived to assist, that I felt bad for him and his fellow officers for the shit they have to deal with on a regular basis. To that officer, thanks for you professionalism.

    1. So very true . People always try playing the race card today instead of having respect for the law . I hope that disgusting rebellious teen get enough discipline . She definitely didn’t get it from her useless parents .

  5. By the way, any chance you all could live stream your body cams.
    It would be like that show Live PD, only better!
    Throw a few advertisements in there and the police force would have enough funding to get all the latest tech.

  6. indigenous youth are being taught to not cooperate with the police. That the police are the enemy. until the Indigenous population take responsibility for their actions, for their lives, nobody will take anything that they say seriously. EVERYTHING negative in your lives is not the fault of someone else. Some of the shit that happens to you is YOUR fault. A result of decisions YOU made. easy for the Chiefs to criticize the actions of people who have to deal with the social issues that was originally created on their reserves. Not their problem. Its all someone else’s fault

    1. I was harassed by police sitting outside as a youth, instead of seeing if I required any assistance they choose to assume I was a teenager out to get drunk off hairspray. In reality I was attacked by my mother and ran away from home. 25 years later, I tried to submit a complaint of racism for a store not allowing me to use my status card and theft of a document they gave me showing they in fact have policiea stating that I must reside on a reserve to use. They police turned around and said they would charge me for tresspassing… instead of showing me the 211 number that is set up here.

      The police, I respect the law, have worked along side highway patrol in the US are very different. Very calm, friendly and caring individuals. Never once did they harass me or my family. Here I can count more times I have been harassed than anywhere else and I have only spend 15 years here on and off.

      To put that into perspective, I lived as a street youth for more than 6 years. Not once did an officer in Thunder Bay assist me. Once I went to Toronto, the officers were kind and brought me to a youth shelter, which in turn set me up for successes.

      I dont believe this officer should be treated like this either, the media, etc. We should empower people to make better decisions and instead of harming your patient, you are trained, show empathy. In the EMS field, you get spit on, assaulted, bled on, shat on, urinated on, but we so not hit our patients. When that girl was tied up to the gurney, she qas at point a patient and we have equipment we can use.

      I feep the EMS should have handled their patient appropiately and the officer should have allowed them to complete their job by bringjng them to the hospital. Without interference.

    2. Best reply I have read ! They are raised to believe that everything wrong in their lives our because of the other race and everything has a dollar figure!

    3. Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of age, skin color or ethnic origin. And nothing in the Police Officer’s Manual says officers are supposed to turn the other cheek. Neither Thunder Bay citizens nor the Police are as racist as we’re made out to be. South of the border, this young woman might have been shot.

    4. Geez you sure have a chip on your shoulder. So you know how every indigenous person feels? Because it sounds like you think that every indeginous person thinks that. you are quite mistaken and your comment just makes you sound like a bigot

  7. Thank you for summing that up, well said.
    I don’t blame the officer and she had every right to use the force she did as a drunk fighting and spitting on you is an assault. No job is worth the possibility of an aides sentence. She had to stop that without a doubt. If you look she was bent over the drunk, oh white or of colour, that is not the issue. The fact a full-blown spat could have been into the eyes or mouth.
    The fact that NAN took this to the extreme they did rather than waiting for facts is reverse discrimination. Why did they not condemn her actions at all
    She is a minor, drunk and spitting on an officer trying to help her.
    Too much politics on the drunks, druggies and mentally challenged rages an officer has to deal with.
    Kudos to her as she protected herself and also showed who is in charge.
    Just another day of a hard but appreciated job

    1. Just want to clarify one thing…..there is no such thing as reverse discrimination. It is simply discrimination no matter which way the “discrimination ” flows.

  8. BRAVO!!!!! Well written
    I stand by all of you. I have friends and family in law enforcement and i 100% support all of you
    You all have an almost impossible job against terrible odds
    Wish there was more that i could do to help you all

  9. Hopefully in the end, the FULLs story will come out. What is missing in the earliest posts and the abbreviated video that shows only what the poster wants you to see, are the happenings that led up to the event. Why was EMTsummined to the Egan St. Residence? Why were the Police asked to attend? Why was a 17 year old inebriated? What might have occurred prior to the short video, that may have necessitated her being restrained?
    I applaud the FN youths who want to come to our city to further their education, but please, when coming here you need to realize that you are not only representing yourselves, you are representing your people. The responsibility for this respect lies with NAN, beforehand, with follow up from YOUR staff on a regular basis. Please get off your self righteous horse and do your job, for YOUR youth and accept your portion of whatever blame is parcelled out.
    It is so disappointjng to hear the responses from NAN and their FN supporters, who seem to love to finger point, but always after the fact.

  10. We should not ever forget that NAN and similar organizations are political entities. When was the last time you heard an opposition party leader agree with the government it power. NAN is no different. They will never comment on all the good things that the TBPS officers do on a daily basis to help the Indiginous citizens such as when police officers , firemen or EMS rescue people in the river from drowning or take a drunk to the hospital to kept them safe at taxpayers expense. They only want to whine and complain about how badly native people are treated because that is what they feel they need to do to justify their existence and fat salaries. Imagine if NAN actually heaped some praise on the police or condemned the actions of their own people. Have you ever heard them comment about the criminal acts that some natives commit in this city? That would be like Andrew Scheer saying agreeing with Justin Trudeau. NAN would view the TBPS as the enemy even if Mother Teresa was the Chief of Police.

  11. Of course you are a cop that are saying this was that girl under arrest cuz if not she had every right to say let me go I want to go she’s not under arrest you have no right to hold her there second she should have not a spit in the officer’s face and also the officer although it’s a spit could have just punched a person or whatever like you said but you guys are the ones that chose this profession to be spit on to be called down salted it’s your job deal with it just recently I was attacked in my own house had my head split open and no charges were laid blood everywhere and was told by one of the cops or if I did that I’d beat the s*** out of him to I did nothing wrong as to why I got my head smashed in but a cop feels that it’s okay because of the situation assault is a salt no matter which way you looked at it she could have easily put the f****** shirt over the the girl’s face as a spit mask so she couldn’t further be assaulted you cops are the f****** worse than the city you f****** don’t even investigate anything someone says all this person did. Something and you go right to the other person and arrest them and I can f****** speak from experience you guys wanted to be in the profession of rats because you were beat up in high school and now you have a gun on your waist and think you’re the f****** law the system is so f****** messed up you say you say spitting is assault but slapping the s*** out of a f****** youth is not yes she should have never spit that you’re the professional you’re the cop are here to protect us not beat on us take the f****** spit cover her face and arrested for assault oh wait now you got to take medical leave that us taxpayers has to pay for it cuz you were spit on what about nurses and PSW to get spit on bit kicked punched daily they can’t lay a f****** hand on anybody even if it’s to deescalate the situation but yet you feel as an officer you have the right to f****** assault people what a joke Thunder Bay Police is the worst police force I’ve ever f****** dealt with I try to make a complaint and they say there’s no there’s no grounds for it but yet people f****** can just say s*** about me and they arrest me and now I have an arrest record that’s f****** 20 pages long and not one of those f****** charges have I ever been convicted on all were dropped in f****** court or dismissed in court of lack of evidence to all you guys do is just f****** make people pissed off and wonder why when you go to arrest them when they didn’t do anything there fighting for it because no they don’t want to be arrested because you didn’t do anything that you as cops feel that you can do whatever you want because you’re the cop f*** you shame on you Thunder

    1. Bill, I would seek medical attention as soon as possible. Just trying to read and decipher what you just wrote, I would say you have permanent brain damage.

    2. Bill, you are an idiot that thinks using the “F”word makes you a big tough guy. You make no sense and your grammar sucks.

    3. I am really sorry for you! Thanks for posting maybe someone in the health care profession will see how badly we need mental health care. Take care and I wish you well.

    4. Unfortunately your situation is not “normal”…..you should try to avoid having so many negative interactions with police. No offense but your comment made you sound like one of Thunder Bays problems. Sounds like we would be better off if you and your wrap sheet of innocent charges left town……you don’t like it here anyway, go be an”innocent” nuisance somewhere else.

    5. Right on! I’ve had male officers ask me to them my tits. I’ve been harassed and hurt by officers. I would never support these brutal, cry babies that put descent people through hell by false accusations of assault.
      Couldn’t agree more.

  12. I for one support and back the officer actions.

    I will say it again if it was my daughter or son that did this, I would have slapped he/her when she was brought home to.
    Stay strong TBPS the people that are good parents and believe in the rule of law have your backs.

  13. I find with my encounters with TBPS is show them respect and you’ll get it back. Somebody called me a cop lover on another article, well you know what, maybe I’ve grown and learned to respect them. Without them, it scares me to think how many gangs would be controlling this city if TBPS wasn’t doing there job. I can’t even imagine the situations that are dealt with on a daily basis that don’t make it onto this site. Just know that you have a 100% support here TBPS whether one person like myself can make that any clearer, each and every one of you should hold your head in high standards for all the outstanding work and making this city feel a little bit safer and a bright future ahead. Just please continue to bring down these gangs and drugs so we can excel as a community and show them we don’t want them here anymore!

  14. wile what you are saying is understandable . The officer striking the young woman was revenge not justice. If the officer wants the young woman punished for her actions it is up to a judge not her.

  15. I dont agree. Im sure she has had worse done. Its not like the girl hit the officer. There supposed ubstain from certain force

  16. How come nobody picks up that it was an intoxicated 17 YR OLD,
    shouldn’t there be charges for under age drinking and also who supplied the alcohol.

  17. The officer was assaulted. Bottom line. The youth today have no respect for officers. Thank you all for your service.

  18. I somewhat agree. If the youth and the officer were toe to toe I get using reasonable force to restrain the individual. However what is being shown is that the youth was already restrained on the stretcher. So is this still reasonable force or abuse. Tough question. All these questions need the truthful answers not coverups by either party. Hopefully all the truth will set the record straight

  19. In 🇺🇸 they shoot you
    In 🇨🇦 they slap you
    Count your blessings and move on.
    About time we started backing the people that go to work everyday to keep us safe and not tippy toe with this race b******t

  20. So by this logic, if I’m spit at, I have a right to hit someone with force not exceeding broken bones or any physical damage? Okay.

  21. I agree with with everything the officer has said here, and voiced a similar if not stronger opinion in online comments recently. TBPS has had to deal with several social problems as Thunder Bay and regional centers have seen industry collapse, changing the social make up, and too much of this falls on police. Hopefully new leadership will see changes to procedure that officers are not tied up for hours at the hospital waiting on mental health assessments etc. In this incident I hope to see support from EMS, having had more frequent assaults needing police backup. Mild use of force is a free pass for assaulting an officer, and that needs to be made clear.

  22. I agree 100% with the police officers comments!!! What the female subject did was (allegedly ) spit at the officer and that in itself is an assault !!!! But once again being an indigenous that did the assaulting of an officer it’ll be the officer they find at fault!😡

    1. I support tbps and feel the officer did nothing but defend herself..this race card crap is getting old very quickly…

    2. You are right. The “race card” is an old game. Only it was used by whites to abuse deprive the indigenous peoples of their rights and hide abuses of power. Finally the tables are being turned, though it’s obvious that you wish you could get back to the old way the game was played. Sorry Fred.

  23. AS MUCH FORCE AS NECESSARY. Plain and simple. The office was apparently spit on. Not puched, not kicked and differently not slapped. There is no way no how that a spit requires force to go even anywhere near a slap or any other kind of striking.
    Police officers are trainered in self defense so they can subdo the offender. In my opinion if it needes to go to that level of self defense then clearly the officer needs alot more training. I know this as I am black belt in martial arts and it is very easy to control someone especially if that person is lying on anything without striking them.
    It makes me think what can happen to someone if they swear at her. Does it mean punches, maybe some kicks or worse is the loaded gun the officer is carrying going to come out.
    In no way am I against the police but I am against is miss use of “power”. Again ” AS MUCH FORCE AS NECESSARY”

  24. Police officers are professionals and should behave like a professional. The female was restrained, so it was not acceptable to use force. I don’t see why people are coming to the defense of the officer. If she doesn’t have the self control to act appropriately in this type of situation, I would be concerned with her future interactions with the public. In this case, both were assulted. Which assault was worse? The officer did not have the right to use force on a restrained individual. This post says it is okay to use force on a restrained and impaired individual. If I’m missing something let me know.

  25. Where are the parents and their comments on this? What about their child’s actions? Shame on parents to leave it up to everyone else to raise their kids.

  26. It is unfortunate that this situation happened but this type of thing happens all the time except that it usually isn’t caught on camera. Regardless of whether it was caught on camera or not we as the public know that nothing will become of it and the officer will not be held accountable. When my niece was almost killed by four officers nothing happened to the officers because by the time it got to court one officer had passed away so it got thrown out. Police are above the law.

  27. Most of us try to avoid the Thunder Bay “clown act and zombie show” by selectively choosing where we eat and shop etc.
    The number of choices of where to go seems to be slimming down.
    To the professionals (and volunteers!) who routinely head straight into this circus to try and maintain or repair it, I raise my cup of coffee to you.
    Salute !

  28. in the US they put a bag over your spitting head, good, start it here now with every drunk punk a**! Say something Fiddler!!!

  29. There is a clear lack of understanding here about what reasonable force actually means. Reasonable force by definition is the amount of force that is necessary to protect oneself or one’s property. As is very clear in the video, the young girl was restained. There was no potential risk of harm from coming to that officers life after she was spat on. Slapping her was not a means for the officer to defend herself but a means of retailation.

    Yes, while spitting is gross (and assuming this young 17 year old indigenous girl has HIV is not only demeaning but also very racist) and legally considered an assault, she very well could have been charged with assaulting a police officer. But, we are talking about a spit. Regardless if you’re going to assume that it’s contaminated with infectious diseases, it’s still just spit. Was it threatening her life at that immediate moment? The life of the other officer? Any of the emergency personnel? No. Because it’s spit. It can be wiped off and the officer can be tested for any sort of contaminates (as I’m assuming is protocol).

    But the slap, ladies and gentlemen. Was it necessary or reasonable? No it absolutely wasn’t. I’m sorry to burst your bubble because a police officer isn’t allowed to lose their cool. Nor should they be allowed to get away with committing assault in situations where their safety or the safety of others is at risk. Police officers are trained to de-escalate situations using their words first and foremost. Maybe she did this in the initial interaction, (we can’t be sure because the video clip is only a few seconds long) but there’s no indication that after the girl was restained, that situation could not be re-evaluated by the officer and she could have used her words to calm the girl down.

    Police officers have a difficult job. No one is disputing that. But, just because that job is difficult doesn’t mean they are ABOVE the law. We have rules and regulations for a reason and it is clear that in this case, they were broken. And we as citizens should not tolerate when there is a blanant misuse of power by someone who we give the authority to protect us.

  30. The argument is based on that the officer felt unsafe at that moment and needed to protect herself. The reality that an experienced officer as herself felt threaten by a 17 year old strapped down to a gurnny because she spit. Let me say that again. STRAPPED DOWN ON A GURNNY. And than decided it was justified to put her hands on the 17 year old because she spit. Is it your first day on the job. You hold such a high ranking position within our community and than abuse the power when something doesn’t go as plan. You are trained to deal with these situations and if that’s dealing with it the right way than we should all be scared.

    You are not the law. You work for the law
    So not only do you have the responsibility to keep this city and all the citizens safe you have the responsibility to do that without basis and without abusing your special status with our city. Thank you for making me and other citizens feel unsafe when your presence is known. Quite pathetic

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